I'm looking to buy an HD camcorder, and have a general question.

If I buy a Canon HV30, which uses miniDV tape, what format does the image get recorded in?  Will the HD footage be in an AVI format?  If I want to convert the footage to SD, do I import/capture the video in an SD/AVI format, or do I have to capture and edit in AVCHD and then render/encode to an SD format (likely mpeg2)?

thanks - dcman

now things make more sense to me, I knew I wasn't understanding something

thank you for you help, and happy holidays!

Dan

I am likely going to buy a Canon HV30 within the next 30 days or so.  Prices on camcorders are seriously low and I'm in the market for something new that will be relatively current for the next few years. But, the rest of my equipment isn't quite up to HD yet.  My computer is old, and I don't own a blu-ray DVD player or a blu-ray DVD burner.  My plan is to upgrade as I can afford over the next few months.  In the interim, I'll still be watching SD video, so I need to understand the workflow of filming in HD and downconverting.  

I AM getting into more compositing and green screen kinds of stuff, so knowing how to use HD information is very helpful.  Even if I'm not ready right now, I need to plan for the future.

Thank you for the information!

Dan

Yeah, I was going to mention Cineform, too, but it is priced out of the reach of most of us.  There is a basic Cineform codec included in Vegas for those that have that software.

Dan,
If you buy an HV30, you can still shoot in DV.  IMO, there is little advantage to shooting in HDV and downconverting to standard def.  You might see slightly better picture detail if you are using top notch editing/authoring software and are viewing on an HDTV that upscales.  Plus, DV requires less computer horsepower to edit.  

HDV (and AVCHD) does look awesome on an HDTV, though.  I have found no need to author in BD.  I can store the files on a media server and stream it to my TV.  That saves the cost of those BD blanks and a burner.  It is rather easy if you have a Playstation 3.  Alternately, you can author HDV to a standard DVD if you are willing to compromise on the play time.  You'll still need a BD player to view the video.

Sorry for the info overload, Dan.

Basic questions:  Are you viewing high def video on an HDTV?  A computer?  What are your future plans for viewing/sharing?

Keep in mind that HD video does not require Blu-ray discs (BD) for viewing.  You can view HD video (HDV, AVCHD) on your computer or an HDTV from a flash drive, portable hard drive, a media server, or directly from the camcorder.  So, you don't need to purchase a BD burner and media in order to view video you shoot on an HDV or AVCHD camcorder.

For example, I use a Playstation 3 to view Netflix BD movies.  But, it will also connect via LAN to my main computer for serving up high def videos directly from its hard drives...either HDV or AVCHD...that I have transferred from my camcorders.  The PS3 will also allow me to plug in my SDHC cards that I use to record AVCHD from my Panasonic SD1.  I can then play them directly on my HDTV through the PS3.  I believe that there are some HDTVs that have flash readers incorporated into their hardware so you don't need a media server like the PS3 to intermediate.

You can also play video directly from the camcorder to an HDTV using HDMI or component video.  Most HD camcorders, such as the HV30, offer an HDMI output...as well as component.

The advantage of the HV30 is that you can store HDV video, even edited video, on the miniDV tapes.  Tape archival storage is unsurpassed for cost effectiveness and reliability.  Your other options are to store on hard disk, SDHC cards, miniBD (DVD) or BD.  A low cost option is to shoot HDV, edit it  and record it back to tape in HDV for playback and archive.  You will lose some quality if you do extensive editing in HDV, but it will probably be unnoticeable to the untrained eye.  This way you save a lot of money not buying a BD burner and media, or a media server like the PS3.  The disadvantage is that you have to use the camcorder as a recorder, editing and playback device.

Again, I'm sorry if this is info overload.  The HV30 is an excellent choice for a first HD camcorder.  Prices are extremely low right now and we are unlikely to see this kind of value again.

Personally, I rarely cease to be amazed by how much I don't actually know.  I have also learned a lot.

I have an HDTV, with an HDMI input to spare.  For viewing, I could buy the HD media player I referenced earlier. Another option is the playstation.  I don't have a playstation, but that idea is especially intriguing.  I like gadgets I can use for more than one purpose. Games, movie downloads, and home video playback seems like a lot for one package.  That might be an especially good value.

An HD camcorder makes sense to me, especially since the cost of the Canon HV30 is about half of what I seem to remember.  My research seems to generally indicate that HDV video (which I have learned is m2t) is generally of somewhat higher quality than AVCHD, and that AVCHD is a total pain to edit.  That and the Canon HV30 (which records in HDV) is espcially good.  I'll do a little more research, but I may go with the hassle of the miniDV tapes to get the format, resolution, and camera.  If anyone has had a good experience with a tapeless medium, please let me know.

But, as I said, I'm not fully prepared for HD in terms of hardware.  While I can figure out the playback, I'm pretty sure I will need to upgrade some computer components (or even get a new computer) to do the editing I want.  I don't have enough processing power for HDV. I like to do more than the general cut-and-paste, and have started to play more with compositing, which is memory intensive in SD (and much more so in HD).  I also like to play with render settings to tweak my video and the try to improve it, have done some keyframing, saturation and color adjustments, etc.  My computer just couldn't handle any of this in HD, but this appears to be my only real hurdle right now.  Since I don't feel like shelling out cash for both a new camera and an upgrade right now, that and my wife would make me sleep in the garage , I may "slum" for a while and use only SD footage until I can get everything else up to speed.  This is why I was initially trying to figure out how to get SD footage out of an HD, miniDV camcorder, and couldn't quite figure out how this would happen.

Thank you everyone for your help (especially you Guy).  

Dan/dcman

Hey DC, I thought I would just add a few of my observations. I use Prospect HD which works great although it is expensive. The less expensive t without the Aspect is being discontinued within a few days I think but there is a cheaper option still. Neo does the same as Aspect but  without the effect plugins and templates for Premiere. I'm not sure which NLE you use but if it's not Premiere then Aspect would have no added benefit for you anyway. But quite honestly you don't need an intermediate to edit and produce video from HDV. I did it often with straight HDV before I had Prospect, even with my older computer. What are your computers specs? A good way to test it would be to download an M2T (HDV) file to your computer and try to edit it. If you can't find one I'll be happy to upload one for you to try it.
 
Lastly I just want to highly recommend the PS3. It is by far the best blueray player and upscaling DVD player on the market. Everything else it does is just a HUGE bonus! Even SD dvd's played on this thing in upscaling mode look like HD. It also has the highest resolution gameplay available even though they are only 720p at this point. I can only imagine what they will look like when they come out in 1080p. Anyway best of luck and have fun!:)

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that HDV's resolution of 1440x1080 is actually the same as 1920 by 1080 except that the pixels have a different PAR (pixel aspect ratio). 1920x1080 is square pixels while 1440x1080 is not. Some software, such as Prospect for example will convert the aspect ratio to 1920, but the result doesn't look any different.