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confused again - tape grades

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dcman:
Hi guys,

I just ordered a Canon HV30, should arrive in a few days.

I would like to upgrade my tape quality, I've been using a Maxell tape, bought in bulk from Sam's Club. But, my GS-150 has had so many head clogging and transport mechanism problems I've come to the conclusion I should be buying something better.  It may or may not be the tape, I've always used Maxell (so no likely issues with different tape emulsions)  and panasonic is part of a group that is known for problems, but using a better grade of tape seems like an inexpensive way to control for problems in a new camera that may (or may not) be tape related.

I'm looking at panasonic tapes, that I can buy in bulk (I intend to use the same tape brand in the camera), but can't get any consensus on tape grades (consumer, pro, master, etc.)  Which grade to other folks buy for their projects?  If you have a particular tape or supplier you use, recommendation are always appreciated.

Thanks - dcman

Guy Bruner:
Ok, I'll go over this again as I don't seem to have a sticky topic on it.

Digital camcorders record digital (1s and 0s) signals to tape.  If the signal is recorded, it is full quality.  Higher quality (more expensive) tapes do not make the video look any better than consumer tape.  You won't get more resolution or better color saturation with more expensive tapes.  If your video doesn't drop out but looks bad, it is because it was recorded badly, not because of the quality of your tape.

HDV does not put 'more stress' on the recording ability of tape because it has higher resolution.  It has the same data rate as DV.  However, because MPEG2 (HDV) uses a 15 Group of Pictures (GOP) encoding, a dropout will affect 1/2 second of video (15 frames out of 30 frames per second) versus only a frame or two with DV.  Therefore, dropouts on HDV are more severe than when recording DV.

There are minimum standards that must be met for a miniDV tape to ensure it will work in all miniDV camcorders.  All name brand tape manufacturers meet those standards.  Name brand tape is not always manufactured by the manufacturer named on the tape.  Most manufacturers hire OEM factories to make their tape and label it for them.  Just because a tape says 'Panasonic' on it does not mean Panasonic manufactured it.  It could have been made by Maxell or Fuji or Sony and labeled 'Panasonic'.  OEM manufacturers make tapes for a range of brands.  They cannot affort to retool their factories for each brand of tape.  Therefore, all the tapes they make must meet the quality standards for the different brands they are labeling.  So, don't get hung up on brand names.

Consumer tapes will work fine for recording HDV.  Some manufacturer's brands may work better with your camcorder than others.  The only way to know for sure is to try different brands until you find one that is available in your market, is cost effective and is reliable in your camcorder.

Higher grades of tape (Professional or Master grades) are manufactured to higher tolerances than consumer tape.  They generally have better signal to noise ratios than consumer tape which means they are less likely to experience dropouts.  They also have more robust carrier and lubricant layers which means they are less likely to stretch or wear out when reused.  The cassettes are also higher quality.  However, buying higher grade tape does not guarantee that you will get more reliable performance.  It is just less likely that you will get degraded performance.

Lastly, mixing tape brands.  There is so much urban legend and unscientific anecdotal 'evidence' out there that it is almost impossible to provide facts on this subject.  The best practice is to select and use one brand of tape, preferrable staying with one batch of tapes from that brand.  If you must switch, thoroughly clean your heads and transport first.  If you are traveling and run out of tape, don't panic.  You can switch brands if you can't find your regular brand.  Just be sure to clean the heads with a cassette cleaner first.  And, to be on the safe side, throw salt over your left shoulder.;)

Ok.  Tape brands I use and recommend (doesn't mean others won't work equally well).  Panasonic and Fuji.

Jeff Emery:
I use these and have never had any problem.

BTW, I've read many others have had issues with the GS150. Perhaps it's the camera and not the tapes.

Jeff

Adam Gold:
Here's my own personal "sticky" on the topic, which I post whenever this question comes up:

Tape rules:

Don't waste your money on HDV tapes. There is no difference in picture quality between these and regular MiniDV tapes -- it's all digital. Sony Premiums are fine and can be had online for a little over $2 each.

Tape manufacturers often say that HDV tapes are built to higher standards than regular MiniDV tapes.  That's frequently claimed but so far no one has ever presented any statistical evidence, anywhere, that this is so.

Even if it is true you need to do a cost-benefit analysis to decide if overpaying for all your tapes is worth the reduced chance of a dropout, especially if such dropouts are easily cut around (as they are in all the shooting I do). If it's a once in a lifetime event and you want to maximize your chances of having every frame be perfect, then the more expensive tapes may be worth it for you.

When I first started shooting DV I used the TDKs available at Costco for about $2.50 each.  I used a couple of hundred without a dropout or any other problem.  Later I switched to the Sony Premiums because even with shipping they were cheaper.  I’m on my fourth case of 100 and have had maybe three dropouts total in two years.  Costco now sells the Sony Premiums instead of the TDKs.

Don't mix tape brands. Sony uses a different lubricant than others and switching could gum up your heads. Run a cleaning tape for 10 seconds and then pick one brand and stick to it.

Never re-use your tapes. They should go through your camera exactly twice: once when you shoot and once when you capture.

Try this:

http://www.tapeonline.com/MiniDV/Sony_DVM60PRL.aspx

dcman:
Guy, Jeff, and Adam,

As always, thank you for the clear, thorough, and non-condescending advice.  I was having a hard time sifting through the massive pile on information and misinformation on the general internet.

I had feared that perhaps the consumer grade tapes I was using were causing my problems, and that I should be buying professional grade tapes, but it seems that the consumer grade tapes were not the problem I envisioned them to be.  I'm starting with a new camera and wanted to start off on the right foot.

Cheers everyone - your help was much appreciated.

Dan

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